Episode Overview

Ultra-Staff EDGE, Bob Pettke interviews Mike Jacoutot of Butler Street, diving into Mike’s extensive experience in staffing and his insights on blending AI with emotional intelligence to enhance client and talent relationships. Together, they discuss key industry shifts, including post-COVID sales strategies, the growing role of technology, and why discipline and resilience remain central to staffing success.

Listen to the Episode:

Episode Transcript:

[Music]
Bob Pettke (Host): Coming to you from the Ultra-Staff studios in Chicago, welcome to the Staffing Buzz Network with your host, Bob Pettke.

[Music]

Bob Pettke (Host): Hello and welcome back to the Staffing Buzz Network. I am Bob Pettke, Chief Sales Officer here at Ultra-Staff EDGE. We are a full-service front office and back office ATS CRM software solution for staffing companies like many of you listening today. We’ve collectively put this together—the Staffing Buzz Network—to provide an opportunity to facilitate a venue where we can add valuable content to the staffing community.

The way we’re doing that through the Staffing Buzz Network is by having specialized guests, like the one we have here today. I’ll go ahead and introduce our guest, Mr. Mike Jacoutot from Butler Street. Mike, welcome to the Staffing Buzz Network.

Mike Jacoutot: Thank you, Bob. Happy to be here.

Bob Pettke (Host): We’re so glad you’re here, Mike. You’re from Butler Street, and we’ll dive into your staffing pedigree in a bit, but first, tell us a little bit about Butler Street.

Mike Jacoutot: Pretty simple. Butler Street Consulting is a training company that focuses on two of the most challenging areas clients face: client development and talent development. All of our team members have staffing experience, which is a huge plus, because we’ve walked a mile in the shoes of our customers. That sums us up pretty well.

Bob Pettke (Host):
I appreciate that. Just a little backstory—before I came to work at Ultra-Staff EDGE, the last two staffing companies I worked for, you were a vendor of ours. But more than a vendor, you were a partner. We utilized your talents, both in what you presented as a curriculum and through the experience of the folks who work at Butler Street. One of the big values was that you had talented people who rolled up their sleeves and did what we do in this world. We’re so glad to have you here.

But, I’ll tell our listeners a little more about you. Mike, you might consider this your “life in staffing, Mike Jacoutot.” To give folks a better idea of why you’re here today, it’s worth mentioning that you’ve been recognized by Staffing Industry Analysts for three consecutive years as part of the Staffing 100. You were also the Chief Executive Officer of Optimum Outcomes and the Chief Executive Officer of Supplemental Health Care, one of the largest nursing and allied staffing companies in the U.S.

We also have some connections from your time at Randstad. You were the Managing Director of Operations and Chief Marketing Officer for Randstad North America in Sales. How am I doing so far?

Mike Jacoutot: So far, I think you’ve nailed it.

Bob Pettke (Host):
This is one of my favorite parts, and it has to do with the competitor in me. I see that you were inducted into the National Wrestling Hall of Fame. Besides being a sports nut and a competitor, I’m one of those people who hates to lose more than I love to win. If you asked me whether I love to win or hate to lose, I’d tell you I hate to lose. So, I know these individual sports, like wrestling, are one-on-one, and I find that a lot of top performers in staffing—whether in sales or recruiting—are often former athletes. They’ve competed in events, or they’ve been musicians or people with high levels of discipline.

When you think about your success and what got you to where you are today, do you find any correlation with your time as a competitive wrestler?

Mike Jacoutot:
Absolutely. The entire foundation of our program is built on what I learned on the wrestling mat. We start all our training with four cornerstones: attitude, personal accountability, perseverance, and habit. If you think about it, all of that comes from athletics.

Attitude—you’ve got to develop rejection immunity in sales. You need to have the right attitude. I always say you’ve got to have the mindset of Dory, the goldfish from Finding Nemo. If you get rejected, you forget it eight seconds later.

Personal accountability—I was taught at a very young age that if you feel unhappy with your results, you have only to look in the mirror to stare the culprit straight in the eye. How’s that for tough love? Perseverance—good isn’t a permanent place. It’s about getting a little bit better every day, because everything in life is in motion. If you think about it, the world is moving, especially now, at a very rapid speed.

And the fourth is habits. We are all a culmination of our habits. I think you learn that in athletics, like you said, whether you’re a musician, a world-class chef, or anything else. I’ve surrounded myself and my company with people who are accomplished in their specific areas, whether it’s a first-chair oboist, a triathlete, or a CrossFit person—they’re all very dedicated to what they do.

Bob Pettke (Host):
No doubt. One of the things I’ve found from being involved in staffing for close to 20 years before coming here is that it takes a unique individual to thrive and survive in this industry. To be a little graphic, I’ve seen that staffing can chew people up and spit them out. In other words, if you don’t have the chops and discipline to do the work, you’re not likely to stay in this industry for long. So, when you see someone who has a year, two, three, or more under their belt, you know you’re dealing with a very special, unique person, especially if they’ve had some success along the way.

Mike Jacoutot: Absolutely.

Bob Pettke (Host): Cool. Mike, I’m going to switch gears a little bit and dive into recent history. We’re going to look at three things: the recent past, what’s happening in business today, and maybe take a look at what we might start seeing next year in 2024, as we come to the end of this year.

One thing we can’t deny is that COVID changed the world and the way we do business. Staffing was not immune to that. Our world changed significantly. You were part of all of this during that time. What are some of the significant changes you’ve seen in the staffing space as it relates to how we came through COVID and what things look like now on the other side?

Mike Jacoutot:
Well, first off, I think anybody who came through COVID standing deserves a huge round of applause. I think I even shared this with you offline—when Trump shut down the country, we saw our sales plummet by 76%. We were sold out through June, but people panicked and started asking for deposits back, so we had to adjust.

One of the big things we did, and this ties into your question, is that we knew we had been selling virtually since our inception. We’re a virtual organization, and we were using Zoom as far back as 2015. We had virtual backgrounds and were really ahead of the curve. So when everybody started panicking, we thought, “What do we do?” We put together a webinar, and we taught people how to sell virtually for free—how to sell on Zoom, how to set up a home office—because, let’s face it, business had invaded the home.

What happened was incredible. We had 3,300 people attend that webinar—our biggest webinar before that was about 262. It changed the game. People started calling us, asking, “Can you teach us how to do this?”

People became very comfortable moving from face-to-face interactions to virtual ones on Zoom. But as more people got comfortable on camera, that strength became an “over-strength,” and it manifested itself as a weakness. After two years of stimulus money and a high, I think a lot of people lost some of the fundamental skills—active listening, effective questioning, getting face-to-face with people. You’re seeing the residual effects of that today.

Bob Pettke (Host): I couldn’t agree with you more. One of the things I noticed coming through this, and it’s part of the world we live in today, is that during and after COVID, I saw a lot of my salespeople spending time emailing and texting instead of picking up the phone. They weren’t making calls like they used to. What have you seen recently, in terms of challenges, that we need to overcome when it comes to using technology versus having face-to-face conversations or talking over the phone?

Mike Jacoutot:
Well, Bob, at some point, you have to talk to a person. Emails have their place, but the biggest challenge with emails is that you miss out on something crucial: rejection immunity. We teach a multi-touch approach that includes voice, voicemail, email, and what we call DPQ, which is a direct phone qualifier when someone picks up the phone. But if you think about just sending out emails, you miss a great skill—building rejection immunity. And we actually have that term trademarked, by the way. Rejection immunity is when I get rejected, I pause for a second, pick up the phone, and dial again. That’s how I build skill.

I had a boss back in the early ’80s who basically told me I was horrible on the phone. He practiced with me and said, “You’re great in front of a customer, but if you don’t develop your phone skills, you’re not going to reach your full potential.” I remember what he said: “You’ve got to pick up the phone. You’ve got to take the rejection.”

Back then, they just hung up on you. There was no voicemail. He said something that still has an impact on me today. He told me, “Mike, they love you. They just don’t know it yet.” You can’t take it personally. That was one of the best pieces of advice I ever got. I’m 64 years old, and I’m still talking about that advice, which I got when I was 23.

Bob Pettke (Host): What a great point! As I reflect on that, when people don’t put themselves in a position to be rejected, they’re also not putting themselves in a position to be successful. You can’t score a basket if you don’t take the shot. So, what a great term—rejection immunity. And you said you’ve got that trademarked?

Mike Jacoutot: Yes, we’ve got that trademarked. Feel free to use it, but make sure you give me the credit with a little mark next to it!

Bob Pettke (Host):
(Laughs) I’ll make sure to reference you on that as we go through this.

Now, one of the things I’m seeing today, and it’s part of the world we live in, is that many people say staffing is a people-and-relationship business. They feel strongly that you always need that personal connection. But there’s another segment of the staffing world that believes AI is going to make staffing less about those personal relationships.

There are so many ways to use AI in everything we do today. But when it comes to relationships specifically, what’s your take on how AI might affect the client, customer, and partner relationships moving forward?

Mike Jacoutot:
Well, I’ve said this on my webinars, and I said it on stage a couple of weeks back at SIA’s Healthcare Staffing Summit. The first thing we need to understand is that I personally believe AI is not only going to be the biggest change of my lifetime, it’s going to be the biggest change in the history of lifetimes. I tell people all the time, Bob, don’t stand on the tracks when the train’s coming through. This is one of those moments where you have to lead, follow, or get out of the way.

At Butler Street, we have a saying: “Technology for transactions, people for relationships.” We’re never going to diminish the relationship side of the business because it’s still people buying from and selling to people. But any task that AI can do better than a human should be outsourced to AI.

For example, I just put together a video with 15 use cases for AI. One is researching a company. I can go in, use a plugin, search a company’s website, 10-Q, or 1-K filing, have AI listen to their quarterly earnings call, and it will give me three or four points I should address from a training standpoint. That would have taken me hours, but now it takes about 27 seconds.

Then I can understand the financial and operational outcomes of a particular buyer persona. If I’m a director of warehousing, for example, I can quickly find out what my top two or three financial challenges are and how I’m going to be measured. AI can give me that information right away. Then, I can take that information, convert it into a script using our value statements, and make it my own.

We believe in AI, or as I call it, augmented intelligence. We combine AI with emotional intelligence (EQ) and positive habits to drive success.

Mike Jacoutot: AI, or augmented intelligence, combines artificial intelligence with emotional intelligence (EQ) and positive habits. Together, AI plus EQ plus positive habits equals sales success. People ask me all the time, “Do you think sales is going to be replaced by AI?” I say, not immediately—at least not in the near future. But salespeople who don’t get proficient in using AI will be replaced by those who are.

Bob Pettke (Host): That’s worth repeating! I think I’ve got it: AI plus EQ plus positive habits equals sales success. I want to make sure I’ve got that right.

Mike Jacoutot: Exactly. I have to give credit to my partner, MaryAnn, for coming up with that formula. At the end of the day, you can’t take AI straight out of the box—you have to add your personality to it because it’s still people buying from and selling to people.

Bob Pettke (Host): And you said, “Technology for transactions, people for relationships,” right?

Mike Jacoutot: Yes, that’s correct. Technology for transactions, people for relationships.

Bob Pettke (Host): This is great stuff. I’m learning here myself, and I’m sure others listening are, too. As we continue, let’s talk more about how you and your team at Butler Street are working with the staffing industry to help companies thrive and survive in this space. What are some of the things you’re doing, especially with augmented intelligence? Could you dive a bit deeper into that?

Mike Jacoutot:
Right now, we’ve integrated cutting-edge AI into all of our training. We have very structured processes in our training. The first thing we always emphasize is getting into the customer’s operating reality—seeing problems and opportunities through the customer’s eyes. I even take off my glasses and say, “Look through these eyes,” to emphasize that point.

One of the key things with leveraging AI is your ability to prompt it properly. Before AI, we used to say that in sales, you’re defined in the eyes of the customer by the quality of the questions you ask. With AI, you’re defined by the quality of the prompts you give to tools like ChatGPT, Microsoft Co-Pilot, or other AI models. The more structured and detailed your prompt, the better the output.

There’s even a job today called “prompt engineer,” which wasn’t even a thing back in 2019, and it can pay around $250,000 a year. But that role will probably be eliminated in the next 18 months because the next versions of AI will be able to prompt themselves. You’ll be able to tell them, “Make me a better prompt,” and it will go through a whole tree of thoughts. It’s fascinating.

That’s what we’re doing—we help companies and their people grow by keeping them competitive through the use of AI, or as I call it, augmented intelligence.

Bob Pettke (Host): Tell us a little more about what you’re doing specifically with ChatGPT.

Mike Jacoutot:
We have 15 use cases for sales, and ChatGPT is one of the tools we use. It can help write proposals, and you can train it. I’ve built separate GPT models specifically for sales coaching. My team practices role-playing with it every Thursday. It’s tough to get meetings, but we use ChatGPT to practice those skills.

I think I might have shared this with you before—we did a webinar back in July, and we had about 700 attendees. Then at the ASA (American Staffing Association) conference, we had a challenge: “Get a meeting with ChatGPT.” We had 64 people try, but only one succeeded. The best part is, he was a Butler Street-trained person, and we gave him $1,000 as a prize.

Truth be told, when I first tried this with my own team, they went 0-for-6. I told them, “You need to practice.” The next week, they went 6-for-6. So I remain cautiously optimistic.

Bob Pettke (Host): I would imagine, after going through that, with a group of 64 people and only one getting the meeting, there’s power in that. Power in knowledge, power in technology, and power in using this tool in such an effective way. You must have been the most popular guy in the room that day.

Mike Jacoutot: Well, I’d say things are going well. But we’re not done. We’re expanding our company, hiring more people, and doing a lot of different things because we want to stay ahead and give the industry what it needs. Right now, speed is the currency of today. Every minute you’re not leveraging AI, your competition is, and you’re at a disadvantage.

Bob Pettke (Host): That’s another great quote—”Speed is the currency of today.”

Mike Jacoutot: Absolutely. I tell people that 90 days is like a year in AI—that’s how fast things are moving.

Mike Jacoutot: And Bob, I was carrying my hourglass with green sand because it’s a constant reminder—we all get the same 525,600 minutes in a year. We’re all CEOs of our own lives, and we’ve got to decide how to use those minutes. It’s really important.

Bob Pettke (Host): That’s a great reminder. Mike, we’ve covered a lot of ground, but as you and your team go to market, and we’ve touched on some of these things already, why are companies choosing to partner with Butler Street right now?

Mike Jacoutot:
I think it comes down to the fact that we understand their operating reality. We’ve walked a mile in their shoes. I always say staffing has a little bit of “terminal uniqueness”—the belief that “you don’t understand our business, it’s so different.” And to a degree, it is different because staffing has both a business-to-business component (clients) and a business-to-consumer component (talent or candidates). That makes staffing unique.

It’s also a tough ramp because you’re dealing with the ultimate variable on both ends—people. You’re not making a product, and you have two core processes: client acquisition and retention, and talent acquisition and retention. No one has to teach us the staffing industry. About 70% of our annual revenue comes from staffing, and it’s because people know we understand what they’re going through. We understand the metrics, the submittal-to-start ratios, margins, bill rates versus effective bill rates—all of it. We can really help them with those things.

Bob Pettke (Host): Mike, I ask this of people all the time. I know you’ve got over 20 years of experience in staffing, but I know you had a career outside of this before. How did you get into staffing?

Mike Jacoutot:
That’s an interesting story. I spent 20 years as a Corporate Vice President, Officer of a publicly held company—Standard Register. I had about $1.4 billion in revenue under me and 1,800 people. I was living in Dayton, Ohio at the time—great place to raise a family. Then 9/11 hit, and I was 42 years old. I did some self-reflection, and one day a headhunter called.

They were representing Randstad at the time, which was one of our largest accounts. We had their document management contract. I took the interview, went down to Atlanta, and I remember walking into their corporate headquarters. There was this big digital sign, and it said, “We put 52,000 people to work last week.” I thought, “Wow, that’s kind of cool.”

Then I went upstairs and met with the CEO, Jim Reese, who’s still a friend of mine today. He said, “Mike, I’m sure document management is a noble profession, but we put people to work. And largely, how many presents under the Christmas tree depend on how well our people do their jobs.” He tugged on my heartstrings a bit, making it clear this was a people business, and you could make a real difference in society.

So, I signed on with Randstad, but I was cautious. During the interview process, people kept saying, “He doesn’t know staffing.” They needed a sales engine, and that’s what I was hired for. But I knew I wouldn’t get the respect unless I truly got into staffing, so I ran a full desk undercover for 90 days. After that, I had a great handle on the business, and I think people respected me for it.

After 13 months, the business had turned around. It was down 22%, and we grew it 23%. Then I got recruited to be the CEO of Supplemental Health Care. That’s the story of how I got into staffing.

Bob Pettke (Host):
That’s a great story, Mike. I ask this question because there’s a “fraternal order” of staffing people, and I’ve noticed that many of us didn’t study staffing in college, and we didn’t grow up playing “staffing.” But sometimes, someone sees something in us and pulls us into this industry, recognizing that we have the discipline, the competitive edge, and the drive to succeed.

It could be that someone walks into a staffing office looking for a temp job, and the recruiter recognizes something different about them—a little more flair, a little more pizzazz—and says, “Hey, let’s try you for something bigger.”

Bob Pettke (Host):
Like I said, I’ll probably continue to ask people this question as I bring them on. I appreciate you sharing that story, and it’s amazing to see how much it has impacted not only your career but also the ripple effect it’s had on the people you’ve worked with. You’ve changed lives through what you’ve done, and you continue to do so through the programs you offer at Butler Street. You’re making a real difference, and it comes full circle when you think about that statement from your CEO, “We put people to work.” It’s a great story. Thank you for sharing it.

I have just a couple more questions before we close. This is more of a random, potpourri-style question. We’ve talked about the past and the present, but if you were going to offer your best advice or wisdom to leaders in the industry, as they look ahead to 2024, what are one or two things they need to know or be aware of to stay ahead in the market?

Mike Jacoutot: The first thing is to be curious as a leader. The world is changing rapidly, and you need to have a mindset of curiosity to keep up. Building a great company is not something you can complete and then take a step back to admire. It’s an ongoing process of building, bonding, forming, changing, defining, and redefining. It’s never perfect, and it’s never finished. We’re all under construction.

I’d say AI is going to be a major part of leadership development over the next year. Our company has invested thousands of man-hours to stay ahead of the curve and to lead in this space, and it’s paid off. I would say to any staffing leader, if you’re not comfortable with AI yet, you need to get comfortable.

Bob Pettke (Host): That’s very wise advice. I wrote down that being curious as a leader is key, and I like the idea that we are all “under construction.” It’s important to recognize that, as leaders, we are always evolving.

Mike Jacoutot: Absolutely. And the day you think you’re not evolving is the day you start falling behind. I’d use the same line for building a great leader—it’s never finished. Look at what happened when COVID hit. We all had to change instantly. You can’t rest on your leadership laurels. You have to continue learning and developing.

Bob Pettke (Host): Mike, you’ve got a lot to offer the staffing community. What’s the best way for someone to get in touch with you or your team if they want to learn more about partnering with Butler Street?

Mike Jacoutot: We have e-learning options where you can just swipe a credit card and get access immediately. For smaller companies with just two or three salespeople, they can use our platform at butlerstreetonline.com. For larger companies, they can visit butlerstreet.com, where they can get in touch with us through the contact forms. We use HubSpot, so one of our business development consultants will reach out within 24 hours. I’m also on LinkedIn, and so is my entire team. We believe in social selling, so it’s pretty easy to get in touch with us that way as well.

Bob Pettke (Host): Great! We’ll make sure to include that information when we post this episode. Mike, it’s been an absolute pleasure having you on the Staffing Buzz Network. I hope we can do this again sometime down the road.

Mike Jacoutot: It’s been my pleasure, Bob. I’m looking forward to it. Let’s definitely do a replay sometime.

Bob Pettke (Host): Thank you so much for being here, Mike. We’ll talk again soon.

Mike Jacoutot: Thanks, Bob.

Bob Pettke (Host):
So there you have it, Mike Jacoutot from Butler Street—a real wealth of knowledge and a great resource for people in the staffing industry. Whether you’re just starting out or looking to grow your business, or solidify how you go to market, Mike and his team have the tools to help you succeed. We’ll share the details on how to get in touch with Mike and Butler Street as we wrap up today.

Thanks to everyone for listening and for making our first episode a success. As we conclude our second episode today, I’ll remind you to subscribe and tell your staffing pals to join us on the Staffing Buzz Network, available on your favorite platform.

Also, if you want to learn more about Ultra-Staff EDGE—our full front-office and back-office ATS CRM software solution—give us a call or send us an email. You’ll find the information on our outro page. I’d be glad to personally talk to you and show you how we can help make your business run more efficiently.

Until next time, thanks, everybody, for joining us on the Staffing Buzz.